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 Clarification -Wicca-

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Clarification -Wicca-   January 25th 2011, 11:00 pm

So, recently i discovered that my family would disown me if I ever let it come to light that I am Wiccan... which kinda destroyed me. I was wondering if anyone knows the whole story as to what the whole Christian hatred towards Wicca is. And how I can explain to people who are misinformed that ask me, since i get a lot of questions from people at school about my Religion. I'd like to clear some of the mud up in my area since there are (surprisingly and to my delight) quite a few pagans in my school. Weird, i never noticed pagans before i became one unless it was obvious. now i can pick them out pretty easily. Smile
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 25th 2011, 11:35 pm

The history of witchcraft being negative comes from the judaic religion's apparently holy doctrine. There are a few mistranslations across the centuries and mis rewrites of the holy scriptures and additions and fragmentation of them to add what is considered evil at the particular time. During the time of the beginning of the jewish holy scriptures they hated their local pagans which infact did enslave them which were the egyptians. They were quick to brand anyone who had access to apparent arcane or unattainable or difficult to comprehend knowledge. In competition of trying to establish a more fiirm and strong ground in the ancient world the ancient jewish people were swift to denounce other religions with their one powerful God who was apparently omnipotent and yet very childish. Like a evil little boy with tools playing with ants. However the jewish people were always abused by paganistic people like the romans, greeks, and egyptians, arabians and so on and forth.

The stigma gave on quickly with the apparent no proof existence of the apparent "Christos" or christ which is annoited one in Greek. Which was a title actually given to many "holy" people during that time within greek intellectual world. The only 4 proofs towards the existence of Jesus was 4 greek philosophers making reference to a Christos. Not Jesus Christ. With that in mind the apparent christians after the death of the apparent Jesus used his teachings and the corruption of then emperor who apparently saw a holy "Symbol" that conincded with early christianty to destroy the then mainstream paganistic views of the vast pantheon that was the roman worship hold. The romans then became Christian very shortly. Which then became the roman empire slowly converted to the now catholic church. As time went on the Catholic church evolved in a very power insitution that was quick to spread its apparent religion across europe In a storm. In attempt to assimilate many pagan religions in Europe they absorbed what was compatible, such as halloween, and destroyed what they could not incorporate into the faith. Magick and science for example were primarily the targets of early and middle christianity. After Christendom reached its height in power in the 700s it became known as the dark ages due to its suppression of knowledge and apparent witchcraft. Witchcraft back then was even studying the stars and doing simple scientific experimentation like vinegar and baking soda was considered an unholy potion made of the devil. Many resisted the then church with reason but the church was quick to associate anything besides the true faith as evil and the devil. As a result then dinosaur bones were dead demons, and people who studied science were wizards, wise women were considered witches and since the powerful catholic church could no comprehend these were only what humans in fear do best. Destroy. As christianity lost its power over time, past the crusades. Reason took foot again. Not before sadly the inquistion of people who were deemed to be heretical and blasphemous. All this was used to control the general populace. Religion back then was a proven method of control. As in the bible the apple was symbolic of knowledge and God also forbid the use of it. So hence the church justified the destruction of what it saw fit. After the great schism of Christianity into many different branches, mainly protestantism and Catholicsm the power of christianity waned more. But however recently people use as always in history are using it to escale their own agenda of what they see as not right. Little do most of these people their holy scriptures were written by evil crazy apparent god fearing men. And not a divine being who likely does not care what humanity does in the first place relatively watch in idle shaking their heads at their apparent righteous attacks agaisnt their own kind. Sadly in places like America the general populace are decendants of people who fled religious persection on Europe and were able to practice their ways, instead they became exactly those they fled in time being isolated from common knowledge and the such. Hence these pockets of misinformed people will not heed to the listening of common sense

Ironically christianity came from rudimentry Egyptian and Zororatrian paganism. And call pantheistic people heretical and evil when they believe in 3 gods. Jesus, the holy spirit and Yahweh. Interesting enough they do not know they are pagan in this regard. Their apparent belief in teachings that tell you if your child disobeys you are permited to kill her. IF a woman is not a virgin you must kill her on her wedding day. To appease the lord you must burn a bull and splatter its intestines all over the altar room. Sounds very evil and ritualistic

Whats more funny christians are more like apparent fake satanists than they like to believe they eat the body of christ and drink his blood. Symbolic canabilism. A practice common in some areas of egyptian and greek areas. Little do they know Jesus shares dozens of things in common with many paganistic ordeals like Horus or Mithra of Persia and so on.

The hatred really stems of the fear of things they cannot understand. Their rituals are no different than real magick. They believe in a outdated archaic book that tells them what to do but they insist on picking and choosing what they wish to believe.

I suffer the same thing from Christians and other judaic religions for being Gay. Interesting. According to the bible it is more of a sin to eat shrimp than be in love with a man. Hmmm.. last time I checked overweight fundamental christians love shrimp.

In most conclusion before I rant more There is tons of things to say about what causes hatred within christianity. ITs dark and shady history. Those are some. I can give you more if you wish but I imagine this suffices for now

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Ailyn
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 25th 2011, 11:41 pm

Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.


Wicca is a religion established in the early 1900's by British occultist Gerald Gardner. Set up as a mystery religion, it incorporates various ideologies inspired by Eastern thought, Kabbalah, British witchcraft, ceremonialism, and the Order of the Golden Dawn, to name a few. Originally, Wicca was oathbound, with an inner and outer court and only initiates were given access to the "coven"'s secrets. I believe in was Buckland and the Farrars that are credited with bringing Wicca out of Britain and establishing the non-oathbound trads. While British Traditional Wicca still operates in a manner similar to what Gardner originally established, there have been new branches and sects that operate quite loosely within the founder's original intent. Correllian, Feri, Dianic, and eclectic are some popular branches of Wicca today. Because Wicca is 1. non-Abrhamic, and 2. a witchcraft religion, most Christians see this as against what their scriptures teach, and of the devil. Whether these scriptures have been mistranslated or faked is irrelevant to most Christians.

Knowing the truth about your religion and where it came from, I feel, should be mandatory. You can find Gardner's "Witchcraft Today" on Scribd.com. If its been taken off there, email me, and I'll email you a copy of my PDF.
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Tatanial Kayhon
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 26th 2011, 12:20 am

One thing Aliyn, thou shalt not suffer a witch is a mistranslation, the actual verse is "Thou shalt not suffer a Sorceress to live" Which then, meant a Woman who used magick to seduce and kill men.

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Astaroth Uriel
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 26th 2011, 12:30 am

Ignorance usually fuel the fires of hate sadly. Everyone has already touched on that already so far. Hope your family sees the light and choose the love over the son than a religion.
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Ailyn
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 26th 2011, 1:25 am

I know that Tat. But its irrelevant, its what's in the Bible's available now and its what people are basing their hatred from. Those who hate us aren't concerned with mistranslations, and those that are are probably more accepting.
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Tatanial Kayhon
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 26th 2011, 3:01 am

I am most aware! ^_^ I was just making sure you were, as most Pagan's do not actually know that tidbit of info.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 26th 2011, 8:09 pm

Ailyn wrote:
Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.


what exactly do those mean? i'm not good at finding the meanings of Lines from the Christian Bible.




also, i find it amusing that i'm not the only person who thinks Christians are symbolic cannibals. Razz

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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 26th 2011, 8:53 pm

First one would mean you aren't supposed to allow a practioner of magick to live, meaning kill.

Second would mean not to associate or control spirits as with those who study the ways of magick as wizards are supposedbly are.

Third would indicate that the apparent God will disown you should you fraternize with any of the such he has previously mentioned in which case spirits and magickal users.

Lastly this indicates those who associate with said spirits and practioners will also be put to death.

Interestingly people do not want go and follow the eytmology behind most of these words to find out what they litteraly mean. Not to mention the real contexts into which they were ment to be read as in given time periods.

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Bunny Wunny
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 28th 2011, 2:43 am

MM Kneph

Tell them that Christianism also has Pagan origins, this might enlightened them but I dont guarantee that it can change their beliefs about Wicca and Paganism.

Like for example the story of Jesus Christ of Nazareth... I mean, the story of a Divinity becoming man, by being born of a mortal virgin lady and then dying, going to Hades, resurrecting, and ascending to the heavens is not new at all. It did not begin with Jesus Christ. There were many ancient stories like this even before Jesus Christ was probably born. This story has its roots in ancient and pagan mystery religions. In other words, Christianity had a pagan connection. And it’s not original at all except for one little thing. The ancient pagan people did not think of the journey of their dying and resurrecting God to be a real person, but was accepted by them as a legend, folklore myth, sign or symbol.

Christianity, however, insisted that Jesus Christ actually lived as a real and historical person, and Christian theologians took painstaking and accurate researches and investigations to prove that He, the said Messiah, really exist! According to the book I borrowed from last year from my old friend, entitled “The Jesus Mysteries,” the story of the “dying and resurrecting god” is the same story found in all ancient mystery schools, from Asia Minor (Attis) and Persia (as Mithras) to Greece (as Dionysus) and Egypt (as Osiris). In that book, authors Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy cite some important crucial links and undeniable parallels between the ancient teachings of pagan religion and those of Christianity.

Now, if you will tell this to some conservative Christian followers they might say,... " Ahaa, oh are you sure? if then.. why don’t we know this?" Well according to its authors, the early Roman Catholic Church did everything in its authority to prevent the truth from coming out. It systematically and mercilessly burned and destroyed all teachings and literature of pagan origin including the Gnostic gospels.

Isn’t this the same attitude some Christians still have today like your parents, criticizing all beliefs that are different from or opposed to their own dogmas? So nothing has changed. Except that now that some people is willing to accept everything the Church dishes out. This does not minimize the reputation of Christ, I reckon. The story of Jesus is a story of every man. We are the divinities that came down from heaven as Jesus did before. We will all die, but will live again as He did. Isn’t that where the heart of the Jesus journey really lies?


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Mextli
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 29th 2011, 11:38 pm



explains it all, enjoy
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Obelisk
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 31st 2011, 5:40 am

Very Intresting!

I now agree that Christianity was not a unique religion founded or established by a religious teacher and prophet called Jesus christ, whom his followers consider to be a God. The basic ideas of Christianity originated from Pre- Christian Religions. And what I watch really shocked me! Shocked
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Tatanial Kayhon
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 31st 2011, 4:21 pm

Christianity has nothing unique at all, every single things is stolen from somewhere ^_^

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Ailyn
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 31st 2011, 9:29 pm

Mextli wrote:


explains it all, enjoy

I love you so much right now. Zietgeist is AWESOME!!!
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Obelisk
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   January 31st 2011, 10:20 pm

Tatanial Kayhon wrote:
Christianity has nothing unique at all, every single things is stolen from somewhere ^_^

And these stolen ideas are the teachings and philosophies that some people follows blindly because these are what Church authorities tell them, and accept only their interpretation of the sacred scriptures, as if theirs is the only correct and valid interpretation.

Now I have come to the determined conclusion that one’s degree of certainty about his or her religion is inversely proportional to his or her knowledge of the facts about that religion. The more theoretical or fanatical a person is about religion, the more ignorant he is about the origin and basis of his beliefs.
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Astaroth Uriel
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   February 1st 2011, 1:44 am

Good job Dan Smile excellent choice for an educational video.
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Tatanial Kayhon
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   February 1st 2011, 4:01 am

Obelisk wrote:
Tatanial Kayhon wrote:
Christianity has nothing unique at all, every single things is stolen from somewhere ^_^

And these stolen ideas are the teachings and philosophies that some people follows blindly because these are what Church authorities tell them, and accept only their interpretation of the sacred scriptures, as if theirs is the only correct and valid interpretation.

Now I have come to the determined conclusion that one’s degree of certainty about his or her religion is inversely proportional to his or her knowledge of the facts about that religion. The more theoretical or fanatical a person is about religion, the more ignorant he is about the origin and basis of his beliefs.

Exactly, the Church is really just one big control measure and bank. The Higher in rank you go, the Church gives you a better car and bigger house. Now THIS IS NOT a religious thing nor order. It is a corrupt capitalist organization like most governments.

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Obelisk
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   February 1st 2011, 9:59 pm

Thats why I also do not agree with the establishment of a hierarchical structure of deacons, priests and bishops who declared themselves to be the only source of revelation. Because I dont see any religious order on what they are doing.

To know oneself truly allowed human beings to know God directly, without any need for the mediation of rabbis, priests, bishops, imams or other religious officials.

Well actually, in one of these gospels found in Nag Hammadi, The Apocalypse of Peter, as describe by Dr. Elaine Pagels: “The risen Christ spoke to Peter that those who name themselves bishop and also deacon, as if they had received their power and authority from God, are in reality waterless canals.Although they do not understand mystery, they boast that the mystery of truth belongs to them alone. So meaning to say, those teachings and philosophies that the Church is saying are not worth bothering about.
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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   February 4th 2011, 2:49 pm

you guys really know a lot about this. i can't wait to learn and gain more insight fom here.
i also heard that the witch hunts also started from a Reverend in Salem. something about slaves and the crucible was based off it. (i haven't read the Crucible)
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   February 4th 2011, 6:38 pm

Witch hunts had been around longer than the salem trials. Most of the trials in salmen were pathetic excuses at killing each other than actually anything to do with witchcraft. The crucible largely touches onto the banality of human emotion and how we lie and can be manipulated easily. Especially those of high station.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: Clarification -Wicca-   February 7th 2011, 2:56 pm

Yeah i gathered that recently. the part aboot the Crucible.
the other stuff i knew already.

So, the Christian God says that by believing in him, he will forgive you. And not to put any other god before him. I believe in him cause i was raised to beieve in the teachings of God, and because i believe in Orthropraxy (seeing that all deities do exist, but only following certain ones). and i put him first (past tense) because he was the first God i believed in. Razz
comments?
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