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 The Warning.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: The Warning.    January 31st 2011, 6:49 pm

So, a friend of mine consulted with a family member, who happens to be Shaman, about some topics of Magick for me. She (the shaman) warned me about associating with the Wiccan Goddess. she didn't tell me why, but didn't hint that it was the most benevolent reason.
is there anything i should know about Wicca that isn't exactly in the brighter spots of the alley?
and is there any conflict between Wicca and Shamanism? another friend of mine (also shaman) told me that shamans and wiccans don't see eye to eye.
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    January 31st 2011, 7:20 pm

Ironically they are very similar. But I never heard of the both conflicting. Only if the two persons are in question. Can an apparent divine being lead you down a wrong path? In reality no. The person is who guides anyone down a particular path. Just as much a king can order a man but the man moves himself.

Wicca in its negative contents choose not to believe some certain aspects. Apparently most wiccans are quick to deny the existence of angels and demons and other rather commonalities in other practices. Although I have met people who do affirm things of the such. Also I find they tend to be bound to the earth which is not exactly wise considering the universe is limitless and filled with countless worlds and not just petty Terra.

Never take anyone's word if you do not agree with it. Wicca can be a good religion like any other. It is the people who practice it make it horrible no one else. Divine beings couldn't careless about our petty lives and choices when they have a much broader aspect of the universe. However that being said the Wiccan goddess has a counter part called the dark goddess, which is the embodiment of all evil and negativity. Duality is a reality just like everything else in our universe.

I wouldn't warn agaisnt Wicca but nore would I endorse joining it.

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Ailyn
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    January 31st 2011, 9:28 pm

I would say it depends on how you regard the Gods. There are plenty of tales of Gods acting petty and leading humans to their demise. But Wiccan deities no more or less than others. I would just sit down and read from the source (Gardner) and go from there.

I agree with Bodhi; I don't endorse or condemn Wicca in general.
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Obelisk
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    January 31st 2011, 10:33 pm

Me too, I never heard that they are both conflicting. I dont think that there is an essential difference among Wicca and Shamanism. After much thorough research and reflection, you will realized it didn’t matter at all what pagan path one follows and what one believes in. You will soon realized that each paths puts your mind in an empty container. Changing your path or belief is just like jumping from one container to another container. You are still in an empty and meaningless container.

So what’s the solution? Get out of the container dude !!! Go beyond the limitations of the path you follow. Make your own structure of your own beliefs, which is true for you and which you can accept and defend to yourself, not to others, because others may not agree with you. That doesn’t matter. What is more significant is that your new belief must agree with you and that you are comfortable with it. Like what Bodhi said, never take anyone's word if you do not agree with it.

At this stage you may be comfortable with the philosophies of Wicca as Gardner originally taught them, not necessarily as interpreted by other wiccan priests and priestress, but you may also be comfortable with other paths such as Shamanism. I see no essential difference among these beliefs. The seeming differences are mere illusion, as far as I am concerned, although I don’t expect the path walkers of these faiths to agree with me, and it does not matter. I am not interested in convincing them, anyway...

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:11 am

Actually, i'm definitely out of the jar. i can't follow a set path of Wicca, so i have to tailor my own beliefs to what i find. i'm a potpourri or melting pot if you will. and i really have to be creative with my practices if i can keep it from my family. So i don't think i'm inside a jar. i'm AMAZINGLY open minded... through necessary circumstances, i've had to incorporate some Christian practices in my rituals so my parents don't suspect anything. like praying my spells instead of casting them (my pentacle safely tucked in between my palms. Razz)
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:16 am

Excellent, to practice such discretion, despite I believe we should never have to hide our beliefs.... Maybe that will change some day.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:18 am

i noticed that the older generations of our world tend to be less open minded, while the younger ones tend to be much more open minded. (my parents are in their 50's and 60's and i'm 16... huge gap wouldn't ya say? )
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:26 am

No actually, my family is quite similar. My sister for example is 22 years older than me, my mother is approaching the age of 60. and my father is about to retire this year. Large gap. Not everyone is so closed minded. My parents know fully of my arts and practices and a very open. My mother practices her own ways infact, being a clan mother of my particular tribe. My sisters were wiccans for awhile, they've since travelled elsewhere. It really depends on the experiences and the exposures people are subject to. My father is open to it because when he grew up he was brought up around the local magick lore, especially a particular well known filipino relics called the "Anting-Anting" Which was an amulet depending on your version of the story granted you magickal powers to immortality, we have a few in our family that are actually lost,missing or unaccounted for.. Some say it was passed by the ancient powerful priestess of the Philippines. My mother grew up with my great uncle and aunts beings shamans and clan mothers. I'd imagine if they were brought up differently I would be also in hiding from them too.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:31 am

I see. my parents both had very bad religious experiences.
my mother had many encounters with "Wiccans" practicing black majick and devil worship.
my father with bad Christian experiences.
and i... horrible Christian experiences.......
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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:32 am

My parents also say that Witchcraft is a direct rout to heavy drug use and the such.
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:38 am

Hahaha That is quite funny. I know many practioners who haven't even touch alcohol. It is actually proven that neopagans are more likely to abstain from substances than any judaic religion. The stats are apparently 40% of christians are apparently substance abusers of a sort. Although no one is an exception from everything. My apparent ex is a heavy drug user and its an apparent self proclaimed powerful necromancer. And is suffering and paying for that now in every regard for apparently doing "dark" acts and living a dangerous life style. In that regard I would have to question the mental stability of the person especially with such a large ego complex. The religion however does reflect the person who practices, as much as the person reflects the religion but not necessarily all at the same time. I am not saying we should hate them, but we should definitely pity the people who do not want to understand. Children eventually grow up. At some point, even if its not in this life time.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:45 am

i thought so.
quick question:
What exactly, is the general "Occult" i always hear about. (it sounds negative to me... so does the word cult... but that's probably just upbringing and brainwashing).
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 12:53 am

The world occult comes from the latin word occultus, which means secret or unseen or hidden. Cult is a old french/latin word meaning Worship. Considering the names unto themselves occult being secretive, people naturally fear secrets and especially things they cannot or will not understand. So hence the apparent negativity. Cult is another word not meant to be negative to describe a structured belief system, which ironically means the world's organized religions are technically large cults. But in reality, cultists is interchangeable with worshiper. Just I suppose english using peoples decided to pick a word to describe a negative form of worship.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 1:21 am

Hmm. Interesting.
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Astaroth Uriel
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 1:42 am

Having quite the conversation aren't we? Razz
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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 1:55 am

oh yeah. i absolutely adore spiritual learning. i'm definitely a devout on theology and the such.
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Astaroth Uriel
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 1:59 am

Excellent quality to have. Don't ever lose it. Otherwise I am sure you will do exceptionally in your studies.
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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 2:08 am

lol i used to be the opposite. but now... holy carp the wisdom is overwhelming. i love it.
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Astaroth Uriel
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 2:10 am

A sure sign that you a learning well then, just take the time to digest these things, and keep note. Smile
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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 2:24 am

So, prophesies...
i've recieved a few in my life. but never really understood them... especially one that was spoken in no language i've ever heard before (i've heard a great number) almost sounded like gibberish.
what is the signifigance and differences of Profecies, diviniations, visions, and the like?
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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 2:28 am

Sounds rather pentecostal. Those languages are usually known as Glossolia. They are usually from the emotional part of the brain instead of the linguistic part. They are actually different in every person and every language. Two people of the same language will have similar sounding pseudo language. while compared to a Russian they will be significantly different.

Prophecies are usually broad and encompass many people and a large event. Divinations are usually personal, and small events. Visions are either or of the previous two, only seen in a visual sense as opposed maybe tarot cards or angels whispering in your ears like Baba Vanga or Joan of Arc.

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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 2:45 am

wow you guys know a ton. And i've used glossolia before then. i use it when i'm asleep. (i talk in my sleep) i've been told that i speak gibberish in my sleep... but that it sounds like it has meaning. and some words/phrases are recurrent.
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Tatanial Kayhon
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 4:20 am

Well, so much to catch up on.

Well Kneph, Wicca is a very.......scattered religion, much like Christianity. It says one thing, then goes and says something completely contradicting. So, some Shamans do like like Wiccans, just like others do like them. So what you are being told is opinion based. Like others have said, it does have a dark Goddess, which is apart of the "Light" Goddess, but it teaches you to embrace the Gods and worship nature. Next, Wicca comes and says that Dark is bad, evil, and thus, impure and must not be touched and fought against. Wait, did we just say nature and the Gods much be embraced, so what changed? People, opinions, and the book.

Most people who remain Wiccan had a strong influential Christian upbringing, on which, they still agree with many points. This is why I call Wiccans "More Enlightened Christians" as that is how I see it. Wicca is SUPPOSE to be about Duality, balance of Male and Female, but, we see in day to day life and books, putting Women in the seat of ultimate power. So it is just flipped flopped.

Wicca is a VERY new religion, though many will say Gardener brought it into the light. Yes this is true, and no, it is a lie, here it is.

Gardener was in a Coven of Witches, yes, BUT he did not completely agree with many of their idea's, like for example, he was a noted Homophobe, and stated that homosexuals do not belong in Magick.

So, when he began writing his books, he took what he was taught, as well as adding in mostly what he believed, MUCH like Alister Crowley.

Next, the ways of the Natives and the Shamans are greatly lost, as natives where not for recording history, but for telling it. So when the white man came, most of the knowledge was killed. So today, MANY of the Shaman practices and beliefs are greatly influenced by Christianity. So Wiccans are Witches and Shamans are Christian natives( in a way), makes sense why they might not like each other.

I grew up in a Pentecostal family, very strict, but they did not understand my Wiccan ways, and thus, left it alone, today, I am no longer Wiccan, but a Balance Witch, as I do follow the "Light" and "Dark" I found my own way in the craft, just and all must do. If you feel good and connected with Wicca, and their view of Magick and Deity, that is WONDERFUL, but if something feels odd, or out of place, do not settle for what feels mostly like your spirituality, but go for you!


I do not completely agree with Bodhi on the "Gibberish" standpoint, though I do not completely disagree. I do believe it is completely possible to speak in other tongues that no longer exist and are not known, or that maybe another being is speaking through you. I am the Biggest believer and the Biggest skeptic.

Feel what is the truth, do not hear it, and completely think with your mind. We have it all for a reason, not to use it one at a time. So listen with your ears, feel with your soul, and think with your mind.


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Kneph
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 5:16 am

Like i've said, i do tailor Wicca a lot to my likings. i'm kind of a mix of a Wiccan base, some shaman, Christianity, budhism, and my own beliefs and finds. i still have yet to set a concrete structure though.

what does Pentecostal mean? i see that word everywhere.

a being speaking through you... interesting. i like that for it is logical yet spiritual at the same time. and makes sense. sort of a mini posession?

how lore based is Wicca, or even just witchcraft in general?

that is quite confusing, Follow a goddess who is both light and dark, but avoid all dark... blagh. that's contradictory.

yes i noticed wicca is new, but i did not know Gardener was a homophobe. that's interesting.

does anyone think it'd be a bad idea to wear both a Cross, and a pentacle? (family reasons)

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Bodhisattva
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PostSubject: Re: The Warning.    February 1st 2011, 10:34 am

Pentecostal is just a judaic term. But I was using it in reference to a relatively small christian denomination.

Yes and no. Whilst some beings will definitely speak through you by taking hold of your body, others will just whisper through your ear and you speak it after wards. I'm sure Astaroth can tell you a few things about that.

Lore in terms of ancient knowledge? Well its woven from quite a few religions so I'd say quite heavily. Although some of Wicca is relatively modern in it's beliefs as well, of course that all depends on the practioner.

Not necessarily, but yes it is. The whole universe is made out of two things that usually oppose each other. In which case there is usually a meditation between the two youi have to find. But no one said you had to be 50/50 anyways.

He was a homophobe probably because he had fragile homoerotic fantasies himself. Like most homophobes do. But we also must consider the time he was raised in.

No, I do not believe it is. Symbology is quite unique and will vary on the individual, so they are not exactly contradicting.

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